Do you count carbs?

[BarbeyGirl]

I'm curious whether y'all count carbs or eat "by feel," and why.

I counted carbs (with Fitday, then My Fitness Pal) almost daily for about 2 months after going primal. I felt it was important because primal was sooooo different from my previous way of eating (clean near-vegan) that I needed to spend some time getting a handle on the macronutrient content of foods.

I quit counting when I found myself getting obsessive, wasting time comparing this food to that food, trying to nail a precise carb intake. It got to the point where counting actually encouraged me to eat MORE carbs, because I could look at my Fitday and say "Oh, look, I have 9 carb grams left today...what should I eat?" :rolleyes:

I haven't counted carbs for at least 6 weeks now, and I'm looking and feeling fantastic. Perhaps it's relevant that I started out lean and strong, and now I'm nothing but leaner and stronger. If I were trying to lose fat, I might still count carbs at least a few times a week to keep my attention sharp.

[pkafka]

Barbey - you took the words out of my mouth "I go by feel." I am looking to be healthy, and lead a natural life... Like you pointed out, counting carbs/calories can drive a person crazy, and is certainly neither healthy nor natural. If I feel like I ate too much fruit for breakfast, I just refrain for the rest of the day. I try to keep it simple, and I think that both my mind and body benefit from this approach.

-pk

[BarbeyGirl]

So here's a question for you:

Can everyone successfully eat "by feel"? I'm sure it's a natural tendency -- surely Grok never thought twice about whether or not to put a bite of perfectly good food in his mouth! -- but our cultural and environmental norms (easy access to cheap food, tantalizing advertising that stimulates emotional eating, etc) seem to override our innate sense of reason. This is exacerbated by the fact that many of the frankenfoods that fill our grocery shelves wreak havoc with our physiological ability to detect satiation.

Those of us who were fortunate enough to be reared on fairly clean diets have a clear advantage (I, for example, never learned to like soda because my mom never bought the stuff), and can probably moderate intake with relative ease. But for those who switched to primal from a more extreme form of the SAD, I imagine eating by feel would be much harder. True? And if so, is it a skill that can be learned/recovered? For some, will moderation always be a struggle?

[Micke77023]

So here's a question for you:

Can everyone successfully eat "by feel"? I'm sure it's a natural tendency -- surely Grok never thought twice about whether or not to put a bite of perfectly good food in his mouth! -- but our cultural and environmental norms (easy access to cheap food, tantalizing advertising that stimulates emotional eating, etc) seem to override our innate sense of reason. This is exacerbated by the fact that many of the frankenfoods that fill our grocery shelves wreak havoc with our physiological ability to detect satiation.

Those of us who were fortunate enough to be reared on fairly clean diets have a clear advantage (I, for example, never learned to like soda because my mom never bought the stuff), and can probably moderate intake with relative ease. But for those who switched to primal from a more extreme form of the SAD, I imagine eating by feel would be much harder. True? And if so, is it a skill that can be learned/recovered? For some, will moderation always be a struggle?

Barbey, I grew up eating whatever, whenever, how much ever and never thought about it. Luckily, I was active and my parents fed me healthy foods in general. They always ate pretty naturally and kept minimal processed foods and sweets around the house. I do find it very difficult to eat by feel though. I found that when I try to think about what I am going to eat all day, I get driven crazy and become less productive and often eat less naturally because I don't know how to listen to my body. Given that my job is cool, but not exciting all day long, I often get bored and my mind drifts to what I should eat when or craves food out of boredom.

I am not sure how to deal with this aspect of eating naturally by feel or mind. I find myself often just making a very deliberate decision not to eat something rather than being able to walk by whatever it is and not think about it. Does that make sense?

Gotta ge tback to working... Microsoft. I Bing. U Bing?

[celtia]

I counted carbs many years ago when I lost weight on Atkins. I think many people coming from the SAD probably feel more comfortable with the structure of a plan that tells them exactly what foods are permissible and how many carbs to eat in a day and so forth. And that worked for me to lose, but didn't do jack for helping me maintain because I hadn't changed my thinking.

Now I'm embracing the Primal principles of good health rather than just focusing on a method of weight-loss. I know that grains and sugar are out the window for me, and "food" created in labs and manufactured on assembly lines is not anything the body was made to process; so I avoid those things for my daily sustenance.

As for real food, I find that I don't need to count, because I already know from counting on Atkins that green beans and spinach are lower carb than peas and carrots. So I can chose according to whether I'm actively trying to make a weight-loss mini-goal or maintaining for a bit, without worrying about counting so that I stay under a certain carb level.

For me, I can eat by feel because I have the knowledge base of a structured plan to draw from as I work toward applying the Primal principles.

[chadwick]

BarbeyGirl and Micke,

I agree that eating by feel can be difficult. Especially, us Americans have different relationships with food that more ancient people, or even modern-day Europeans have. We like to snack, we like to eat fast when we have "more important" stuff to do, etc. Also, I think that when we are bored, food is just a natural outlet to cure the boredom.

With that said, I truly believe that we are not supposed to feel that way. We should have a more healthy relationship with food--we should be able to eat when we feel it is necessary and not eat or feel the need to eat otherwise. Aside from the cultural pressures I mentioned above, there is no doubt that carbs and sugars cause yearnings for food through insulin resistance. The MDA-primal diet helped this somewhat, but the more research I did, the more personal experimentation I did, the more I believe that fruits and vegetables are a.) unncessary for health reasons (which is not to say I do not eat them on occasion though I have pretty much given up all fruit), and b.) still screw with insulin. Once I cut them out, I am able to fast much easier and not think about food nearly as much as I used to (which was a lot, for me).

Dr. Harris mentions a lot on PaNu how part of a working definition of being primal/paleo is the ability to fast easily.

For instance:


I define keto-adapted as being conditioned enough to ketosis that you can easily fast without getting light headed or hypoglycemic. I think VLC (50g) or ZC (5-10 g) folks are all ketoadapted. LC (100g/day carbs) not as much. Even if not in ketosis all the time, KA folks can slip in and out of it easily and their metabolism has all the machinery for ketosis and GNG constructed. Caution: metabolic speculation informed by experience.

http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2009/8/27/how-to-lose-weight.html

So, I would say one of the main goals of my quest is to fast and not feel the need to eat really unless I am hungry. I am getting closer everyday.

[BarbeyGirl]

I would say one of the main goals of my quest is to fast and not feel the need to eat really unless I am hungry. I am getting closer everyday.

Well said. I'm working on this, too.

It took me a couple months after breaking through the low-carb flu (which lasted 6 bloody weeks, in my case) to trust my body not to go weak and hypoglycemic on me if I didn't have food immediately to hand. I'm still getting used to the idea that even if I'm hungry, I can go ahead and take a long walk or finish a report or feed the horses without taking the time to eat first.

Growing confidence in my own ability to go for long, active periods without eating is enabling me -- freeing me -- to fast until I'm truely hungry. It feels almost miraculous.

[pkafka]

So, I would say one of the main goals of my quest is to fast and not feel the need to eat really unless I am hungry. I am getting closer everyday.

I like that a lot Chadwick.

Micke - Thanks for reviving this post; sorry I never got back to you, Barbey...

I try to eat by feel, but like you all have stated, it is hard. The reason I find it to be hard is because there are quite a few "feelings" that make us want to eat, but that should not trigger the need to eat. For me, one in particular is boredom. In the past, I have eaten, not because I am hungry, but just because I am bored.

To combat this, I look at eating as something that fulfills two purposes: 1. It should serve as fuel, 2. If not as fuel, eating should be a social event. I like to enjoy good, healthy food with other people, and try to refrain from eating alone.

I derived the second rule after analyzing how Europeans eat. They are skinny, but not healthy (do not eat well. Tons of grains, sugars, etc.). They reason they are able to be skinny is because they only eat in social situations. Eating for them is a connector. I look at it the same way, but eat healthy food, as opposed to indulgent food (but those two can go hand in hand too... a steak cooked in butter...mmm)

so when I eat, it is either because I need to (for fuel) or because I want to enjoy good food with good friends.

-pk

[tribecalledfit]

pk, I like your comment about food as a social "connector" for Europeans - hadn't thought of it that way before. As for me, I never count carbs but rather keep loose mental tabs on "how I feel" - but I do notice the effects of too many carbs (for example, after Thanksgiving dinner recently when I totally strayed from my quasi-Paleo habits). This feeling of being "a bit off" is something I can attribute to high-glycemic carbs typically, but I never obsess about it to the point where I feel compelled to actually count the incoming carbs.

[BarbeyGirl]

To follow on tribecf's thoughts, I agree that there's no point obsessing.

Yesterday, I joined my mom at an Arabic restaurant for lunch. I ordered a meat dish that came with potatoes and rice, and figured I'd just eat the meat. Well, there wasn't much meat on the plate. :( I went ahead and ate the potatoes and a bit of rice. Sometimes a pleasant meal with good company is worth compromise, in my opinion. I decided not to beat myself up over it, but simply to have a carnivore dinner after a 15-minute challenge workout (as many air squats, pushups, and situps as possible in 15 minutes).

No biggie. I probably still came in below 120g carbs for the day. Looked and felt as lean as ever when I woke up this morning. Today, back to no grain, potatoes, etc. This is a reasonable way to live. :)

[pkafka]

To follow on tribecf's thoughts, I agree that there's no point obsessing.

Yesterday, I joined my mom at an Arabic restaurant for lunch. I ordered a meat dish that came with potatoes and rice, and figured I'd just eat the meat. Well, there wasn't much meat on the plate. :( I went ahead and ate the potatoes and a bit of rice. Sometimes a pleasant meal with good company is worth compromise, in my opinion. I decided not to beat myself up over it, but simply to have a carnivore dinner after a 15-minute challenge workout (as many air squats, pushups, and situps as possible in 15 minutes).

No biggie. I probably still came in below 120g carbs for the day. Looked and felt as lean as ever when I woke up this morning. Today, back to no grain, potatoes, etc. This is a reasonable way to live. :)

Amen Barbey!

-pk