Fish oil

[tribecalledfit]

What are peoples thoughts (and practices) regarding fish oil supplementation? Personally, I take at least 3 teaspoons a day of the high-quality stuff from Pharmax. Both their Finest Pure Fish Oil (with essence of orange) and Berry Frutol are outstanding. My kids love it too and we've made it part of their nighttime pre-bed ritual.

I am not an avid Barry Sears' Zone diet fanatic, and I don't weight & measure my food, etc. However, I am a believer in his high-dose fish oil, just based on his clinical results and observations over the last several years.

How about you guys? Anyone else into the fish oil like me?

[Tarlach]

I don't know to be honest...

There seem to be some valid reasons why fish oil supplementation is a good idea, but is it really necessary? Especially if you eat grass-fed beef and other high quality food?

Our MD (who I respect a lot) is a supporter of our diet and says it is just another fad (that doesn't really do any harm) and I'm kind of inclined to agree.

[Acmebike]

".....the two common causes of fatty liver are fructose and alcohol and PUFA, of any sort, convert it to inflamed liver. The dose has to be high for the omega 3s and I have no objection to 5ml of fish oil or CLO a day. Getting it up to 30% of your calories or up to three tablespoons a day seems risky to me. Again, there were minimal problems in the rats unless you added alcohol (or I guess fructose)..."

Above quote from Peter at Hyperlipid, discussing liver damage induced with fish oil, in an experiment on rats (not furry little people, but still....):

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2009/12/cirrhosis-and-fish-oil.html to read the discussion and analysis.

It appears that the elimination of grains, alcohol, fructose, and vegetable oils are winning strategies to protect the liver. Over supplementation of fish oil may indeed be possible, this study is a starting point. Specifically how it applies to those of us eating strictly Paleo, with pasture raised natural meat and fat sources, is certainly open for debate. But likely there is precious little need for a Paleo eater to supplement with fish oil, occasionally to balance against grain-fed higher omega 6 meats/fats. Perhaps? But even then, since Paleo nutrition gets grain, alcohol, vegetable oils and fructose so radically reduced (normalized?) is balancing omega 6 even necessary?

There is no evolutionary basis to push for the ingestion of massive amounts of fish oil. Sure, eat seafood, eat fish, eat animal fats and meats, and the omega 3 is there. But is more always needed? or always better? I certainly won't be taking Sear's advice to chug as much fish oil as I can in 5 minutes! It makes zero sense when examining our evolutionary background.

[pkafka]

I think this, again, goes back to the crux of the primal argument - if you live like our oldest ancestors (naturally), you should not need any further supplementation. I believe in this, I eat fish, and plenty of it, when it is around.
There is no evolutionary basis to push for the ingestion of massive amounts of fish oil. Sure, eat seafood, eat fish, eat animal fats and meats, and the omega 3 is there. But is more always needed? or always better? I certainly won't be taking Sear's advice to chug as much fish oil as I can in 5 minutes! It makes zero sense when examining our evolutionary background.

You nailed it, Acme.

-pk

[tribecalledfit]

Thanks for all the feedback on this topic! Sounds like I'm relatively alone on this one, at least in this group. I certainly understand that any type of supplementation is not logical or even necessary from a paleo point of view. However, since my own household diet is relatively low in fish (and higher in other types of meat), it seems a reasonable supplement for us.

I tend to believe the research that suggests the discovery of shellfish by our primal ancestors 150,000 years ago, along the shores of the lakes in the East African Rift Valley, was a crucial factor in the growth in the size of our species' frontal cortex. In other words, I really do think of fish oil as a concentrated brain food and feel that it's hard to "overdose" on it. (I, for one, would never try the whole "chug as much as you can in 5 minutes" route, but I do enjoy a daily measured smattering of the stuff.)

[BarbeyGirl]

I eat at least 6 oz of wild fish almost every day, and usually call that good. If I don't eat any fish in a given day, I pop one of Mark Sisson's fish oil capsules, which I happen to have because I won a bottle of them in the contest last autumn. I doubt I'll fork over the cash for more capsules when I run out...but I do wonder sometimes if I should, considering that most of my meat is conventionally raised. :( (Lamb-butchering time is a-comin', though!)

[Acmebike]

I certainly can see the benefits to supplementation! Be it Vit D3, Vit K2, omega 3 Krill or Fish oils, there is some excellent research to back this supplementation. There is some grey line, and it is likely a pretty fat line, more like a zone, that would guide the amount of supplementation. I try to examine my dietary, fitness, sleep, stress habits through the lens of paleolithic times, but do try to be mindful of our modern advancements.

I saw a vid of Dr Sears where he stated (paraphrasing here) that "if you only do one supplement, it should be to take in as much cod liver oil as you can stand in 5 minutes", but looking at the study Peter at Hyperlipid examines above, this may NOT be such a great idea to hyper-supplement.

As far as Omega 6/3 balance, we Paleo/Primal practitioners are far far far ahead of the game through the elimination of vegetable oils/franken-fats, grains and sugars. Moving to full pasture raised meat/fat sources is another step better, but likely not as vital as simply removing the vegetable oils.

Great topic, Tribecalledfit.

I think Vit D3 super supplementation may also be not so necessary.